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First casein paintings - I'm smitten! (Read 11870 times)
Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:49am

RichL   Offline
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Wow....!!!!.... This casien is cool stuff, if I hadn't tried fresco painting I may not ever have tried these. If you are reading this you probably already know about the qualities of casein but if you  don't -- you can start out like a watercolor and finish like an oil, they dry matte and you can buff them to a satin + finish, so I can't help but think this is the most versatile medium I've used so far. I will post detail pics also of each of my pieces. Thanks for taking a peek. Smiley

This is 6" x 8" on canvas board, painted from life.

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I am using Shiva paints. I bought some casein emulsion so I may be mixing my own colors at some point.

Rich Lovato
 

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Reply #1 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:50am

RichL   Offline
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Detail...

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Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #2 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:55am

RichL   Offline
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This mango painting is 5" x 7" on board. I will be including one pic showing how shiny you can buff these out, pretty amazing to me. If you want to keep them matte you have to be careful handling them because if you touch it, it starts to shine and as soon as I see the first shiny spot I just keep going....   Smiley

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Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #3 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:56am

RichL   Offline
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A detail...

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Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #4 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:58am

RichL   Offline
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Make it shine.... I find I have to wait about a week before I can really buff it without causing a movement of pigment.

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Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #5 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 9:11am

Admin   Offline
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That's really good Rich. Yes, get some dry pigment, the transparent primaries for sure. I can send you some if you want to try the ones I have found will make a complete color wheel.
Don
 

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Reply #6 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 9:37am

RichL   Offline
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Admin wrote on Jun 28th, 2006 at 9:11am:
That's really good Rich. Yes, get some dry pigment, the transparent primaries for sure. I can send you some if you want to try the ones I have found will make a complete color wheel.
Don


Thanks Don, that is very generous of you to offer to send me some pigments, but maybe you could give me a link to the information and I'll place an order. Would you say that split primaries are best or are you working along the lines of CMY?
Rich
 

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Reply #7 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 8:06pm

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The Real Color Wheel includes the correct primaries which automaticly includes the right secondaries, split primaries and split secondaries. Plus it has all the colors darkening correctly. Yellow to brown, cyan to blue, etc.

My transparent triad:
Transparent Indian Yellow (warm yellow-brown, transparent nickel complex) PY153 from Zecchi. Senopia's PG10F Nickel Chalated Azo is an excellent transparent yellow also. (new modify 1-16-12, PG10F was dropped a long time ago, today there is Tartrazine water based PY100, PY150 Nickel and PY153 BrSide Nickel) PG10F was named wrong, (PG) means pigment green. The whole Pigment Color Index needs replacing, it's based on the incorrect Red, Yellow and Blue primary color wheel.

Transparent Quinacridone Red (neutral magenta) PR122 from Sennelier. It's the Pigment Color Number that is more important than what the seller calls it.
Transparent Phthalocyanine Blue (neutral cyan) PB15.3 from Senopia.

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Reply #8 - Jun 28th, 2006 at 10:56pm

RichL   Offline
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Thanks! I may have everything on hand except the yellows in pigment as you indicated. Pthalo blue is such a rebel color, I love it but in casein it seems to go everywhere when I'm trying to clean my brushes except down the sink. I've tried ammonia and water but it still ends up all over my hands and the sink and anything else I touch. Any tips on cleaning these brushes? I'm thinking I may need to switch brushes more and soak the used one as I work.  Rich
 

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Reply #9 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 1:26am

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For fresco I use Alcohol, vinegar, ammonia, soap and water.
I use basically one brush and clean it well between colors.
Yes, the new chemical colors are tenacious. Thalo blue turns gray in ammonia, wash it out with soap and water.

Cleanliness is #1.
 

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Reply #10 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 1:42am

RichL   Offline
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I'll try it but I have a silly question to ask.... here goes... what kind of alcohol is referred to for arts use? I have read about it and I am guessing it is methyl alcohol....?   
???

Also where would I buy this? I have heard it is common and easy to find, not so easy just like finding crushed marble for me it is a phantom...I called stucco, plaster, landscaping and pool biulders/suppliers in my area and the closest I got was 3/8" crushed, I ordered some from Kremer but haven't received my order yet, so I am hoping it is of use.
Rich
 

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Reply #11 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 3:44am

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I use denatured alcohol from a hardware store. Isopropyl is Ok but weaker.

Crushed limestone (sometimes called white marble) is used by pool masons. It's used with white cement.

I screen it down to fine, medium and course. Crushed limestone or crushed lava like from Vesuvius is better then sand because it has rough holding edges.

White is good if you are like me and want a white surface to paint on. Lime paste and titanium powder 1:1 is what I use to lighten a color, this keeps the final dried tinted color more accurately then thinning it down with lime water.

This technique was not reported in the past because they used lead white which turns brown in lime.
 

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Reply #12 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 5:21am

RichL   Offline
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Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I'll make good use of this information.
Rich
 

Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #13 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 5:57am

PaulC   Offline
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HI and I am confused.  In the first email Shiva Casien was used, on canvas
I thought Casien had to bee done on a panel.  Am I wrong because I wuld love to use Casien but do not want to prepare boards every time I wish paint.  I curently use watercolor with gouache over it, which gives me wonderfully luminous effects which I love.  But I think Casien would be a step further.  could you please tell me- are Shiva paints good with a proven track record of stability and also are watercolor paper  like 300lb on blocks alright to use or are panels really the only way to use Casien?  Many thanks Paul Czubay Shocked Roll Eyes Undecided  are these symbols readable?  And the paintings are beautiful - I love the surface!
 
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Reply #14 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 6:21am

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Hi Paul,

The symbols are there.

Casien should be on a stiff support because it would crack on stretched canvas. Rich used a canvas panel. Oil could also crack, acrylic won't.

Glue w/c paper to a stiff support.

I'm not happy with Shiva and won't use it again.
 

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Reply #15 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 6:35am

PaulC   Offline
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Thanks very much for your reply- could you tell me why you are so down on Shiva- I have no experience with the paints but was just about to lay out some cash for some but now would like to hear why you are down on Shiva- "The
Gold Standard of Casien"
 
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Reply #16 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 6:47am

PaulC   Offline
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I am so sorry to keep bugging you but could you tell me what Casien Emulsion you use?  I have never heard of this but would love to try it. - You really have me excited about Casien and I would really like as much info as I can get- Many Thanks and Kind regards -Paul Czubay    and where do all of these smiles come from?  I am so confused over these and they drive me crazy  I cannot get over your painting of the nectarine   it is so lucious looking- a very hard quality to achieve and I a partial to reds but yours is perfect in this piece-perfectt color balace and the right amount of lights to darks- this is just a beautiful painting
 
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Reply #17 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 6:58am

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Shiva's oils were too thin, their turps turned brown while still liquid and their copal medium was not. This was many years ago, they may have improved. My casien medium came from Zecchi in Florance. I got it while getting my fresco supplies.
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Reply #18 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 7:03am

RichL   Offline
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Hi Paul: Thanks!!!! You definitely need a rigid support  to paint on, but the good news with casein is that you can paint on so many different surfaces, for the hardboard panel I gave it 3 very thin coats of gesso followed by a thin coat of PVA (like Elmer's glue) I have also painted using oils over PVA, some people say to sand it first but I've never had any trouble.

The casien emulsion I bought is from Shiva, I'll let you know how I like it, I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

Don has a recipe for making homeade casein emulsion on his website, that may be the way to go.

Rich
......ars longa...means more the older I get
Shocked
 

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Reply #19 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 7:20am

RichL   Offline
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PaulC wrote on Jun 29th, 2006 at 6:47am:
...snip...could you tell me what Casien Emulsion you use? ..snipped....


You may enjoy this Paul:
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Reply #20 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 7:36am

PaulC   Offline
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thanks- I feel so s-t-u-p-i-d-. I  live in S.F.!  Thanks and I will go there this weekend- Paul Czubay
 
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Reply #21 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 11:08am

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That was a very informative link Rich, thanks.

Oil over PVA may keep it from cracking, unless it gets hard and shrinks and looses it's bond to the support.
Acrylic gel won't adhere to oil paint. I think your better off with a good chalk and oil ground.

It just dawned on me, Shiva probably has wax in it's casein, that's why it can be buffed. It would soften the casein also. Ammonia, common to both casein and wax would emulsify the mixture. I like wax in my paints, I don't know if I would trust anyone to add it for me though.
 

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Reply #22 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 1:39pm

PaulC   Offline
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HI- I do not know whay more people are not commenting on your beautiful paintings.  The first looks as though it were painted with gold leaf- it is so shiny , and yet has weight.  And the fruit blends in with the background so well- I think you really have something going with Casien and should be followed up on.  Paul Czubay
 
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Reply #23 - Jun 29th, 2006 at 5:50pm

RichL   Offline
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Folsom, USA, CA, California

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PaulC wrote on Jun 29th, 2006 at 1:39pm:
HI- ...snip.. I think you really have something going with Casien and should be followed up on.  Paul Czubay


Thanks so much Paul you are too kind. It sounds like casein may be the ticket for you as well, as you described the way you work I think you'll enjoy it.
All the Best,
Rich
 

Too much art is barely enough!!!
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Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2007 at 7:40am

RichL   Offline
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Folsom, USA, CA, California

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RichL wrote on Jun 29th, 2006 at 7:03am:
The casien emulsion I bought is from Shiva, I'll letyou know how I like it, I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

Don has a recipe for making homeade casein emulsion on his website, that may be the way to go.

Rich


Hi Paul:

OK.... so as promised (but very late) I tried the Shiva casein, I'm not too thrilled, I tried it on museum board mounted to hardboard, I felt likeI had no control compared to home made emulsion, I also tried the Shiva on traditional RS ground maybe not the best idea, the Shiva was again less than pleasing as in I don't like what I painted, the homemade casein on the same RS ground turned out OK, almost like a pastel because of the look, I'll post some after I finish them. I got sidetracked over Christmas getting ready for a show (11 pieces), I figured I had to paint mostly in oil, although I did  sneak in a couple of egg temperas which were well received.

I have used the Shiva casein tube paints but the Pthalo blue is so far beyond bad they should really be ashamed for making it, it is completely unusable in so many ways. Rich
 

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