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A teaching question from Israel (Read 2585 times)
Mar 24th, 2008 at 6:52am

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Color is Everything!
Makawao,  Maui, USA, HI

Posts: 1196
Hi Inbal,
Those are very important questions. In America we have even a bigger problem. The schools since 1930 have been mandated to teach RYB. Now that I can really disprove it as an old and wrong theory, I have all the past students of this failed theory individually putting up big opposition and they have to be brought down one at a time. It's easy, but it takes time. You are starting with fresh students. I will help all I can.

It's always nice to give this to education, in the past 35 days these universities have received this.
Northern Arizona University, BYU, Glenn Carleton College, Pittsford Sutherland High School, Imperial College London, University of New South Wales, Kennesaw State University, York College of The City University of New York, Lausanne Collegiate School and United Arab Emirates University have requested the Real Color Wheel course and color wheel. It started with the International Middle School of Geneva getting it in 2002.

inbal leitner wrote:

> hello don
> i am inbal, an animator and illustrator from israel. i teach illustration
> in a couple of art schools. as all students, i was also introduced to the RYB
> colorwheel during my studies.
> planning a first color lesson, i started reading, and was exposed to that huge
> argument about the true color wheel
> as in http://www.sci-ed-ga.org/pdfs/1-17-08%20TeacherTECH%20program.ppt#284,1,A Scientific Investigation of Science Instructional Materials SDSC TeacherTECH Program
> i must say i also tend to agree with the CMY system- looks more mathematically true to me.

Let me go over your link one page at a time.. except the pages that are not color related.

Page 1: A Scientific Investigation of Science Instructional Materials
SDSC TeacherTECH Program
Dr. Larry Woolf
www.sci-ed-ga.org (click on presentations)
General Atomics
Presented 1/17/08
San Diego Supercomputer Center

Page 6: The white is black approach; Art Fundamentals Theory and Practice;
There are three colors, however, which cannot be created from mixtures; these are the hues, red, yellow, and blue.  They are called the primary colors.
COMMENT, FALSE: Red and blue are secondary colors.
Page 6:  A mixture of the three primaries should theoretically result in white; actually this mixture produces a neutral grey which may be considered a darkened form of white.”
   NOTE: The reason a dark neutral can't be made with these colors in pigment or white in light is; one, the colors are wrong, two, that they are all opaque. Had they been transparent it would have worked better but still not perfectly as red and blue are true pigment secondary colors while yellow is a pigment primary.
COMMENT: FALSE, In the subtractive system of pigment color as opposed to the additive system of light and computers, the subtractive transparent primary colors make black not white, the light system primaries RGB combine to make white.

Page 7: The two correct answers approach:
The Journal of Chemical Education:
   … students should identify the three colors needed to produce all the others as red, blue, and yellow.  Most artists call these the fundamental colors,  The correct subtractive colors, used by printers, for example, are cyan, magenta, and yellow.
COMMENT, TRUE: with qualifications. In 1995, when I started my site, the word cyan was never even used. The word was blue, to describe both colors. The printer used cyan, the color is called Phthalocyanine, I called the first "Thalo Blue" "cyan" and stuck to it through all the attacks on my color theory. Five years later I started winning with the new name for the pigment cyan, about this same time my promotion of transparent yellow reached the paint brand makers and they started making transparent yellows.  Today most every brand has a transparent yellow. In 1995 only Old Holland had it, they were making it synthetically since 1900 when the original color was banned and the wars started. I had found and posted that fact, shortly there after that fact covered the internet.
COMMENT: The pure CMY system doesn't work either because it only darkens by subtracting light. Pure Yellow and blue make green. The Real Color Wheel works, no other color system in all time has ever worked.

Page 10: The red (or vermilion), green, blue (or intense blue or violet), cyan (or cyan blue or blue), magenta (or red), and yellow multi-colortural approach
COMMENT: Red and vermillion are two different colors, vermillion is closer to orange. Violet and blue are two different colors. Cyan and blue are two different colors. Magenta and red are two different colors.
   NOTE: This author is playing a shell game here.

Page 10: Barron’s Art Handbooks: Mixing Colors 1. Watercolor;
The result of mixing pigment colors together.
*Black is the result of superimposing the three primary colors; yellow, red and blue.
COMMENT: FALSE, That's wrong, red and blue are secondary colors. YYYY YYMM MMCC = 6Y+4M+2C, that is not black.
*Mixing yellow and red together produces vermillion.
COMMENT: Correct but it will produce a chalky vermillion hue because of the opaque yellow.
*Red plus blue give us violet.
COMMENT: FALSE, Red is a mixture of either yellow and magenta transparent or the opaque cadmium pigments, blue is a mixture of cyan and magenta transparent, or, in this case they are both pre-made opaque and translucent pigments and will mix to a color similar to the light gray made from mixing the three opaque secondaries together.
   NOTE: These secondary colors; Cadmium Red is an opaque pigment, Ultramarine Blue is a translucent pigment, Cobalt Blue is an opaque pigment, Viridian Green and Thalo Green are transparent  pigments.

Page 29
(R+G+B) -R = G+B -G = B
COMMENT: Red, Green and Blue are the additive colors of light, not pigment.
(R+G+B) = WHITE - R = CYAN -G = YELLOW through a filter, as a pigment or gels on a white paper magenta and cyan make blue. So the diagram is correct, Red, green and blue light equals white light, white light through magenta and cyan gels make blue light.
NOTE; By not giving the formula R+G+B = White I thought they were making a confusing chart. These are Light primary colors.

Page 32
Why are CMY called the Subtractive Primaries?
*Cyan film absorbs a single primary color of light, Red
*Magenta film absorbs a single primary color of light, Green
*Yellow film absorbs a single primary color light, Blue
 They each “subtract a primary” color of light
COMMENT: "Subtractive color" is reserved for pigments, where two colors added together make a darker hue. This example calls CMY film/gel colors used with light subtractive, i.e.. "Cyan film subtracts red light from the white light leaving cyan colored light." I don't think the red light was ever there. White light is divided by a prism into all colors, by a filter it's changed into one color. Nothing is subtracted, the filter color is added.

Page 37
Color Wheel Model for Subtractive Colors
A diagram showing a color circle with a triangle in it with Yellow, Cyan and Magenta.
COMMENT;  FALSE: Google is also confused by additive and subtractive colors. They have on 3-20-8, searching 'subtractive colors'.

home.bway.net/jscruggs/sub.html - 6k
<>SUBTRACTIVE COLOR SYNTHESIS uses paints, dyes, inks, and natural colorants to create color by absorbing some wavelengths of light and reflecting or ...

<>Subtractive Color Mixing
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/subcol.html - 3k
<>Subtractive color mixing is the kind of mixing you get if you illuminate (through) colored filters with white light from behind, as illustrated at left.
COMMENT: FALSE, This one should know better. They site their resources on this page of Optic References.
They go on to show their own made up chart in RGB color-space showing the three pigment primary subtractive colors through proposed filters mixing to black.
   NOTE: With filters they would not mix to black, they would mix to white as additive colors, minus the lights intensity energy used up by the filters.  A stronger light would make up the the intensity loss and give the white light instead of the gray light they have called black.
   NOTE: They got their misinformation from the page they have a link to,
Subtractive Color Mixing: Filters
Subtractive color mixing is employed with paints and pigments, in contrast with additive color mixing with colored lights for spotlighting and theatrical lighting. Subtractive color mixing can be demonstrated with colored filters...
Then they say, "Subtractive color mixing is more complex than the additive color mixing you get with colored spotlights."
   NOTE: the colored spotlights are the subtractive colors. I don't know who they think they are dealing with, students.. who don't know any better? Or adults that don't know any better. They certainly don't know any better.
You see Inbal, filters seen on a white surface are subtractive, like pigments. Filters with a white light filtering through them to a white wall are additive.
   NOTE: This Dr. Larry Woolf, the author of this study "A Scientific Investigation of Science Instructional Materials" missed this point and Google missed this point.

Page 52
  “Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out.”
Thomas Cardinal Wolsey (1471-1530)
From the Bad Science web site:
COMMENT: Add the color section of this page :A Scientific Investigation of Science Instructional Materials" to the Bad Science web site.

> my question is- would you teach both methods? would you combine somehow the two color wheels, or teach the CMY and mention the RYB?
Yes, use this page.
Recognize the difference between CMY and the Real Color Wheel (RCW), CMY subtracts light to make colors darker.

> last questions- in order to introduce students to color theory and color mixing- would you ask them to buy only C,M,Y, white, black
> or would you tell them to buy additional colors?

Yellow, Magenta and Cyan pigments MUST be transparent, have your students paint a full color wheel with them.
In ancient times (200 B/C) they were farther ahead in color than we are today. They made an opaque cyan, India made a transparent cyan. True, their transparent magenta was fugitive, it was made from Brazil wood. The pigment named the continent not the other way around. They had a full palette of transparent and opaque colors. We had it in 1886, here is a link to my color course and the information.
Here is a link to the pigment colors I think an artist needs.
Here are the minimum colored pigments I can get away with.
> thank you, inbal
You are welcome Inbal, this page took me 12 hours to put together. Take the time to read it, it will save your students countless hours of heartache.

Aloha from Maui, Hawaii,
Don Jusko, Real Color Wheel
1057 Makawao Ave. A203
Makawao - Maui
Hawaii, 96768
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