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Why not use black to darken colors? (Read 5897 times)
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2011 at 11:04pm

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Hi Daniel,
On Apr 3, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Daniel W wrote:

Well I like how your site does not fallow what basic art teachers teach in college or what science teachers teach....
your "Real" color wheel uses red to shade yellow?  isn't a shade any color by adding black to it by definition of art?

"Shade", conventionally by following Itten or Church-Oswalt shade is adding black to the pigment. That has corrupted the term. I don't use it. Instead, shadow works because the RCW matches shadow colors, neutral dark works. Neutral dark is the dark color made with any triad, complement or split-complement set of colors.

Yellow is a unique primary color. It changes to orange as in the mass-tone of transparent Tartrazine, and to brown in transparent Nickel yellow. Both are accurate. In the colors to neutral dark from bright yellow the first colors darken with magenta (red), from that color point it darkens like red does, to brown before neutral dark black. The RCW is for artists painting on location, that's why I combined the two elements of yellows color as yellow getting darker.

Warm Yellow never changes to cool dark as in adding black (Oswald) or subtracting light (RGB). They will continue calling this change to cool dark yellow as a shade color. So be it, I won't use the term.
 
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Reply #4 - Sep 27th, 2009 at 7:40pm

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On Sep 27, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Catherine (name on file) wrote:

Hello, I found your site, and it is so extensive!  I'm new to drawing, and can hardly wrap my head around the information, although I do know that the two color systems are different, that printers use the CYMK system.  anyway, could I ask you to send me the color wheel, if you are still offering it?  Thank you so much!

Catherine

Hi Catherine,
There are two color "spaces", light, which the computer uses and physical color which we color objects with. Crystals bridge the color spaces and are able to transmit light  while also become pigment when crushes. RGB/YMC uses the same color wheel as CYM and CMYK. The Real Color Wheel (RCW) also uses this color wheel but has one important difference. Colors get darker the same way crystals get darker not the way light gets darker  which just subtracts the amount of light associated with each color. Subtracting light produces the same color as adding black to pigments. Yellow and cyan turn greener by adding black in light or pigment. The artist doesn't want that, yellow should stay warm as it gets darker while cyan should stay cool, like the colors do in nature and in crystals.

Here is your color wheel to print out, thanks for requesting it.
Don

http://www.realcolorwheel.com/colorwheel.htm
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/GicleeMaui.htm
 
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Reply #3 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 10:06am

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Hi PaulC,

You said:
"I am new at posting replies regarding issues on the forum, but this one caught my eye and mind to such a degree that I have been thinking about it for over a month and think I wish to get my opinion out there.
I studied natural dyes and dyestuffs in general which are used for dying, not painting.  But, I think that if a dye exists in nature there must be a room for thought about it on the palette. "

I say:
No way! Forget it.. the painting doesn't look natural, how could it when full colors are darkened with black. If you ever tried it you know yellow mixes to yellow-green, a dirty, ugly shade of yellow-green. Not clean by any means.  A dirty ugly pall befalls any color darkened with that useless black pigment. The same thing happens when you darken Thalo blue with black, it gets greener. Thalo blue should get bluer like the sky, not greener. Yellow shouldn't darken to green, it should darken to brown. So say the crystals.

Elements represent color as crystals of color. To see which elements make which colors in which crystals.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/crystals.htm

"Black can be found in Logwood, and Brazilwood, both barks found in the tropics."

Boil the Brazilwood for the pigment magenta. That was the best magenta in the world for a long time, it named the country.

  "The color black can be found in nature in landscapes such as the British one,after a good month long rain-no let up- and the tree bark truly becomes a dark that it could be described as black."

Just because one sees the color black in the physical doesn't mean it can be used as one of the pigments representing black in the painting.  Even black rubber will have reflection color in it when viewed in the light. Any dark can be made with 3 transparent primary  pigments.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/3colors.htm

Before Indian yellow brown/side there was Burnt Beechwood bark that made a brown mass-tone and light yellow tint in water colors.

"There are also molds and fungi which when left to grow, will give a strong black powdery surface.  This is lab work and is not to be worked with in homes.  But, it is an example of a good black, in nature.  I never use black.  Why?  I personally find it an  uninteresting color, with qualities not worth exploring in serious painting.  But, that I think is the problem with the color.  Most people think it uninteresting, so of on use to explore.  We need a workshop in the color black.  Black used in every way.  As a color in itself- think Frans Kline- or of all the ways it can be used to dull or change the qualities of other colors.  But, there is not enough time in my life for a workshop of this kind.  But, lets not omit it from our palettes.  Lets get some of the blacks and when a time comes for changing a color- dulling, lightening to see what is under that black, wew might find some new ways of using an undervalued color."

By calling it undervalued your saying it has some value. Decoratively it has value but not in a painting from life, it sticks out like a sore thumb, anywhere you use it. Like a hole in the canvas.

"There must be a place for it on the color wheel.  Just because one finds it of no use is not a good reason for omitting it from the wheel completely.  Hopefully unforgivable, Paul C."

Well it is in my colorwheel, black is the center, even though the blackest crystal when cut thin enough shows red.
I show a perfectly neutral gray and black made from the primary pigments in the 3colors.htm link above. There is no room for the pigment black, only the mixed color black, which I prefer to call dark neutral.  Don

 
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Reply #2 - Sep 21st, 2007 at 2:49am

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I am new at posting replies regarding issues on the forum, but this one caught my eye and mind to such a degree that I have been thinking about it for over a month and think I wish to get my opinion out there.

I studied natural dyes and dyestuffs in general which are used for  dying, not painting.  But, I think that is a dye exists in nature there must be a room for thought about it on the palette.  Black can be found in Logwood, and Brazilwood, both barks found in the tropics.  The color black can be found in nature in landscapes such as the British one,after a good month long rain-no let up- and the tree bark truly becomes a dark that it could be described as black.  There are also molds and fungi which when left to grow, will give a strong black powdery surface.  This is lab work and is not to be worked with in homes.  But, it is an example of a good black, in nature.  I never use black.  Why?  I personally find it an  uninteresting color, with qualities not worth exploring in serious painting.  But, that I think is the problem with the color.  Most people think it uninteresting, so of on use to explore.  We need a workshop in the color black.  Black used in every way.  As a color in itself- think Frans Kline- or of all the ways it can be used to dull or change the qualities of other colors.  But, there is not enough time in my life for a workshop of this kind.  But, lets not omit it from out palettes.  Lets get some of the blacks and when a time comes for changing a color- dulling, lightening to see what is under that black, wew might find some new ways of using an undervalued color.  There must be a place for it on the color wheel.  Just because one finds it of no use is not a good reason for omitting it from the wheel completely.  Hopefully unforgivable, Paul C.
 
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Reply #1 - Jul 22nd, 2007 at 11:26pm

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Aloha Don:



Thank you so much!



I do use paint color mixed “full spectrum”  which in my corner of paint world means the goal is to mix wall color with a representational amount from each spectral hue – and no black.  I’ve dabbled a bit mixing my own, but there are premixed brands available.  I wish I could spend my days designing my own colors, but there are rooms and buildings across America that need to be painted!



I fully understand and easily relate to each one of your answers.  I come from a graphic design community and some how rolled into architectural color.  Knowing that there is an artistic community dedicated to mixing good color passionately warms my soul and makes me smile.



Color IS everything!  If I can ever be of assistance to you, please do no hesitate to ask.  I will check out registering at the forum…



Warm regards,

Lori
 
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Jul 22nd, 2007 at 11:28am

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Lori S, IACC wrote:

> Hi Don:
>
> Have been visiting your site for some time.  I’m trying to understand The Real Color Wheel.  Perhaps I’ve missed it, but I would love to know WHY mixing color without black is so important in your theory of how to successfully mix color.

Hi Lori,
Darkening your colors with black is a bad color move, why you ask? Why would such a shortcut be dismissed when it is so easy?

The answer is obvious when two paintings, one using black and one using complements to mix neutral darks are compared. One has a gray lifeless cast while the other has color in the shadows and near shadows. Any color can be mixed closer to nature with out black pigment.

>  
>
> What is the advantage of omitting black?  Isn’t easier and faster to use black to get, for example, olive green or an eggplant color?

I suppose the more you know about color the easier it is to mix any color you see with opposites. Usually the person that uses black doesn't mind just dirtying up greens and yellows. This habit spills over to darkening other colors with black too. Never mind that thay say they don't use black in the highlights, the painting is already half dead.

> Using your methods, is it possible to mix ANY color imaginable or is one limited without black pigment – opaque or transparent?

Any color you see in nature you can mix with three transparent primaries, you can mix them faster with the secondary colors added to the palette. With a full palette it's very easy.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/mypigments.htm

There is no reflected black in black objects, like a car's tires. The reflected hue contain colors. By using black as your darkest pigment color, shadows appear lifeless. To my eye it brings the whole painting down.

Since you are a Architectural Color Consultant your realm is in the physical color property of the object, there, black is just another color to be used as merit requires. I find it quite different when matching reflected colors in 2 deminsions. Black should be the first pigment dropped off the palette if you really want to show color.

>
> Thanks for your time.  If you decide to call, Ohio is Eastern Standard Time.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Lori

Lori followed up with this in a second email.

>Hi Don:
> I write about color often, mostly for various on-line communities and websites.  Would it be okay if I quoted you in the future?  I am stickler for properly crediting and sighting sources and would absolutely, always include a direct link to The Real Color Wheel website.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Lori

Of course you can quote me Lori.
My most popular "link to" site is this one.
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/colorwheel.htm

Today I'm finishing up a table palette of the Real Color Wheel.
I'm making it CMYK from the ground up.
With this set of colors you see on your computer exactly what you print. I'm testing it on my Roland 50" giclee printer as I go along. Sweet.
Don
 
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